Lech Lecha: The Dialogue of Revelation

We now come to the chapter of the first mitzvah actually given to Avraham: the milah (circumcision). I suggest that we first go through the text, before offering an overall commentary. So I will read, and comment a little as I go, in a somewhat loose fashion. Avraham is ninety-nine years old, and he is granted a vision of G-d, who says to him: Ani El Shaddai, “I am El Shaddai.” He manifests Himself to him under the attribute of the Patriarchs and of the Creator, since that is how Avraham first perceived the Eternal: as the Creator of the world. And therefore — yes, it is I who set limits to the physical laws of nature.

You asked yourself who stood at the origin of this whole world: it is indeed I. And I could indeed have gone on expanding; I imposed limits. These limits exist on every level. Each of us is aware of his own limits, in one area or another. In the spiritual realm — in the perception of G-d, in the knowledge of G-d, in this dialogue we seek with the beyond, with the transcendent — it is each according to his capacities. We do not all have the same powers of reasoning in this domain, and that is why there are those who content themselves with a faith that is perhaps elementary: but that is their limit. This Shaddai, this attribute that sets limits, is the one we place on the doors of our homes, as if to say: careful — here too, in this conquest of space, you must set yourselves a limit.

We place it on the doors of our homes to say: careful, here too, in this conquest of space, you must set yourselves a limit. Where you must not set yourselves a limit is in time. In time there is no limit — there it is, an opening onto the infinite […], an opening onto the beyond, which one can reach more through commitment, through action, than through thought. For of course, a faith that has been thought through has far more impact, far more value; it is transmissible, it is open to dialogue — and openness to dialogue is important, as we shall see. For how does the Holy One, blessed be He, manifest Himself to Avraham? Ba-machazeh, “in a vision.” Our Sages point out that ba-machazeh comes from the verb chazah, chazon — rather an Aramaic rendering. It is Aramaic that prefers the verb chazah to ra’ah.

Chazah means to see and ra’ah means to see; but chazah is a vision that reaches much further than the human field of sight. Yet this vision, this chazon, is not very clear. It remains somewhat blurred; it needs translation. Whoever does not understand the original needs a translation. But for whoever understands the original, translation on the contrary narrows the field of interpretation. This is the passage that will be brought about through the milah: from the brit ha-ma’or, the covenant in the flesh, to the brit ha-lashon, the covenant of the tongue. The brit ha-ma’or, circumcision — the circumcision of the being — is what will give man access to speech, to the transparency of speech, to dialogue. For as long as we remain in amirah, as long as we remain in mere saying…

…each says what he likes, each asserts what he likes; we hold divergent opinions. Fine, that is all right. But dibbur, true speech, presupposes that there is a dialogue, that we are interested in the same subject, and that we truly want to arrive at a word that is a peaceful language, a concordant language. And that is a second stage of faith […]. So, Ani El Shaddai: I am the G-d of creation, who imposed limits on creation. Limits on the physical laws — I imposed them. Limits on logic, on the intellect (sekhel), on human reason; limits on the affective life as well — those too I established. We do not all have the same way of feeling the world, of perceiving it, of seeing it.

One must truly make an effort: hithalekh lefanai, “walk before Me.” If you truly want to reach, even a little, the sense of perfection, then you must go out ahead of things. Do not remain waiting. That is the whole difference between having performed circumcision and not having performed it. Not to have performed it means that we have considered nature, as it is made, to be perfect: nothing must be touched, nothing must be done. No — perfection within the order of nature is impossible, because to move the world forward there must be contradictory forces that are nonetheless complementary to one another. And that is why one must not wait for revelation, for a manifestation of G-d — va-yera elav Hashem, as we shall see.

That is for when one does not yet hold the instruments to do it oneself. But once one has them, it is hithalekh lefanai ve-heyeh tamim, “walk before Me and be whole.” We have already said that this was the difference between Noah and Avram. Noah contented himself with what he was, with this divine grace, if you like, that he had enjoyed — ve-Noach matza chen be-einei Hashem, “and Noah found favor in the eyes of the Eternal.” So much the better for him. But unfortunately that is not how he ended his days with his children: the scandal of Ham, who abused — in quotation marks — his person […], and condemned him to sterility. And that — not bearing fruit, not being capable of bearing fruit, and on top of that forbidding it to oneself, doing everything to avoid bearing fruit — is a crime. It is a crime. Noah, the father of humanity, will not be Avraham. When I say that he will be a derivative of creation and not creation itself, I mean this — let me recall the verse: Eleh toldot ha-shamayim veha-aretz be-hibar’am, “These are the generations of heaven and earth when they were created.” One speaks of engendering only in connection with creation, because that is what sets the whole becoming of creation in motion. And that is why be-hibar’am and be-Avraham are made of the same letters. It is a correlation of being: Avraham is creation itself. Upon him this creation rests — and not only does it rest upon him, he can give creation another face.

Well, enough of that. It is hithalekh lefanai: walk before Me — that is what G-d asks. Ve-heyeh tamim: seek to be whole, seek perfection. You will not attain it — fine, you will not attain it. You will remain halfway, halfway; yet you will have had the merit of walking at your own pace, according to your own strength. For the revelation of G-d is always held back — either by man’s laziness, atzlut, when one does not wake up, when there is an attitude of laziness; or by atzvut, sadness. When one is sad, one feels like doing nothing. When one is happy, when one is at ease in one’s own skin, when one wants things to succeed and move forward — then go for it, that is excellent. Ve-heyeh tamim: it is with this that the Holy One, blessed be He, introduces to Avraham the demand of the milah, of circumcision.

And now — careful — I must open a parenthesis here, because you will tell me that this concerns only the man. No. The prophet Malachi speaks of eshet beritekha, “the wife of your covenant.” Ishto ke-gufo: a man’s wife is like his own body; they are a single entity. Consequently, the circumcision he performs, he performs for two — for himself and for his future wife. Together: for himself he performs the circumcision; for his wife he makes peace; he remains within the bounds — of G-d, let us say — as is proper. Ve-etnah beriti beini u-veinekha, “I will set My covenant between Me and you”: that is the covenant. We have spoken of three covenants. There is the covenant in space, which concerns all of humanity.

That is the rainbow, which recalls that the world runs the risk of sinking into the flood, or of drawing the flood upon itself — but there it is humanity as a whole that is engaged. The Jewish people, however, is concerned by two other covenants. That of Shabbat — the covenant of time, the one that steps out of the calendar of ordinary time, of limited time. And to Shabbat we add time, since we do not give it a day of twenty-four hours, but much more: it is a way of stepping out of this measured sampling of time. And there is the covenant of our being — of our being, through circumcision. So there are three beritot, three covenants: the brit ha-keshet (the covenant of the rainbow), the brit ha-Shabbat, and the brit ha-milah.

But the brit milah has, if you like, something more than the others, because it is a brit olam. Brit olam means an eternal covenant, a covenant that nothing can annul or halt. So much so that if a Jew decided not to undergo the milah, he remains a Jew; that is not what makes him cease to be one. Since his ancestors are bound by the brit milah, he is at fault, quite simply, because he has not done it. Moreover, a child who has lost his parents and has no one to perform the milah for him — the community bears the responsibility: the representatives of the community, the rabbis of the community, are responsible for having the milah done for him. Otherwise he must undergo this operation himself, because by his origins, by his roots, he belongs to the Jewish people.

He belongs to the descendants of Avraham, Yitzchak and Yaakov. And this we recall in the blessing we say at every milah: Asher kiddash yedid mi-beten, ve-chok bi-she’ero sam, ve-tze’etza’av chatam be-ot brit kodesh. Al ken bi-skhar zot, El chai chelkenu tzurenu, tzaveh lehatzil yedidut she’erenu mi-shachat — “Who sanctified the beloved one from the womb, set a statute in his flesh, and sealed his offspring with the sign of the holy covenant. Therefore, as a reward for this, O living G-d, our portion and our Rock, command that the beloved of our flesh be delivered from destruction.” The yedid, the beloved, is Avraham; and tze’etza’im always means the grandson — the grandson is the tze’etza. That is how the Ramban explains the relationship between grandfather and grandson: it is the continuity of these generations, of these lines of descent. So: ve-etnah beriti beini u-veinekha — this covenant is between G-d and man. Ve-arbeh otkha bi-me’od me’od, “and I will multiply you exceedingly.” What is this multiplication for? We have already said it, have we not?

It is a multiplication more in the vertical sense than in the horizontal. It makes the being flourish. With it you will have another vision of the world; you will go beyond the limits of your own nature. As long as you remain within the limits of nature and perceive Me through its physical laws, I am El Shaddai. From the moment you go beyond them, you are in relation with Hashem — but in another vision: you dominate nature, you master it, you see yourself differently. Moreover, this word brit carries the sense of beriyah and beri’ah, a creature and a creation: what is at stake is a new creation. One must not think that the circumcised man is simply someone who has undergone a small operation on himself.

True circumcision is the one that brings about a re-creation of the being. And that is why the milah, performed on the eighth day, calls for a going-beyond of the order of nature — and even of Shabbat. We know very well that the milah overrides Shabbat: it pushes Shabbat aside, since we may perform circumcision on Shabbat. Whereas if there is any danger to the person — if the little child is not ready from the standpoint of health and does not present the required conditions — then we postpone it; there will be occasion to perform the milah on another day. We are not going to deprive him of the possibility of keeping many Shabbatot.

When Avraham heard what the Eternal was asking of him, he fell — he submitted. This falling on his face is the effacement of the being before the divine demand, because what is concerned, let us recall once more, is the organ of reproduction of the being, and therefore the organ that ensures the continuity of creation. Without it, it is not possible: the world will not stand. And that is why, once again, be-hibar’am — be-Avraham: all of creation rests upon the milah, upon the Yesod (the “foundation”), when its channel is sound — when its channel is healthy, when its channel is holy. And that is why, even when a child is born already circumcised, circumcision must nonetheless be performed.

A symbolic circumcision — drawing a drop of blood — but it must be done. Now, all the tzaddikim who preceded Avraham were born circumcised. Yes, that was within the order of nature, because at that time they were simply people who enjoyed a certain grace from G-d, and as such they were born circumcised. But Avraham himself was not, because the aim is not to benefit from favorable outward conditions for success in the domain of spirituality. On the level of spirituality, on the contrary, it is the investment of oneself that matters most. Everything depends on it: G-d reveals Himself in the measure of what we invest of our person in discovering Him. So let us compare the first verse, the second and the third.

Va-yera Hashem el Avram, “the Eternal appeared to Avram” — revealed Himself to Avram. I underline this here, because after the milah we will have va-yera elav Hashem. After the milah, elav, “to him,” comes before Hashem; whereas here Hashem precedes el Avram. That means that here the Eternal manifests Himself from above to below; but once the circumcision has been performed — no: it is Avraham who reveals Hashem. We will come back to this point. What I want to make of you is not Avram — not an elite that truly places itself beyond everyone, above everyone, and enters into no relationship with the world.

No — I want you to remain in this multitude of nations, but to remain its father. A father, with all that this implies: a father who loves his children, a father who thinks of his children’s future, a father capable of sacrificing everything for his own children. So I want you to be an Av — a word bound up with desire, since av is related to the verb avah, to want, to desire. I want you to be av hamon goyim, a father in the midst of the nations. I do not want you to withdraw into yourself and to feel like one chosen by G-d who has nothing to do with the others. No: a responsible chosen one, an emissary, a delegate of G-d in the midst of the nations. You will of course be the target of every criticism and every persecution — but it will be My hei, Mine.

For the hei of the Eternal — each time one wants to bring a person out of danger, out of mortal danger, each time one wants to raise him up — today, what do we do? We change the name, we add a name. Yes — it is someone else: it is no longer simply the person defining himself under a given attribute; there is another attribute, and this other attribute makes of him an entirely different person. But here, the milah is going to change the attributes of Avraham — who until now was, if you like, the man who had set himself apart from the generation of the Flood, who remained outside that generation of the Flood, who refused in any way to follow the movement. Yet that generation had the tools for it, since it possessed that language […].

It mastered the language of creation. With this language of creation it could reach heaven. But that is not what was done: they preferred to use this language to reduce spirituality to their own desire. We do it too, for we very often give ourselves convincing arguments to persuade those around us, with commentaries that allow us to escape our responsibilities a little, to reassure ourselves in what we are doing — we lie to ourselves. It happens, it happens. That is what the Dor ha-Haflagah, the generation of the Dispersion, tried to do: we will reduce heaven to our own measure, to our own way of seeing things. And so there are different languages, and we are even witnessing, in the midst of the purest Orthodox movements, a blossoming of currents of thought, of ways of seeing, of interpreting, of legislating. And in this we run great risks, because we are no longer temimim, no longer wholehearted. We are no longer temimim. But you know, a spiritual path does not bring only joys; it makes us suffer, because sometimes — very often, even — we remain misunderstood. Either we have brought it upon ourselves, or all those around us could not be sufficiently convinced by this other way of living. And that is the problem of this covenant. Ve-lo yikare od et shimkha Avram, ve-hayah shimkha Avraham: you will no longer be called the father of an elite; your name will be av hamon goyim, the father of a multitude of nations — because I, the Eternal, that is what I did: the hei, My hei, with which I created the world.

Eleh toldot ha-shamayim — “These are the generations of heaven”: the engenderings of creation, be-hibar’am. This hei is suspended in be-hibar’am, and very small — to tell us that it is with the letter hei that He created them, that He created the world with the letter hei: the letter of a breath, the letter that is not articulated. It is finality — yes, it is determination, that is true. That is what the Holy One, blessed be He, puts into play in giving Avraham the hei of Avraham. And whoever dared to call his child Avram instead of Avraham would commit a grave error, a sin. One is not permitted to call a child Avram. Yet we changed the name of Yaakov to Yisrael, and we use both attributes at once — true; but the one is the support of the other, the one is the inspirer of the other; whereas with Avraham it is the same nature, but it has been converted. Avraham is the first who dared to carry out this conversion of his own person, and at the same time to carry it […] through the whole generation of the Flood — it takes some doing! But that is what G-d does in creating; that is what G-d did in creating the world; and that is what man does on the level of the microcosm when he has chosen this mission of being […] a servant of Hashem.

There we are. It is in this capacity: ve-hifreti otkha, “I will make you fruitful.” Let us not forget — we shall see it — that the Holy One, blessed be He, revealed Himself after the circumcision at Mamre. Avraham had three friends, three confidants: Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. And the problem arises — it arises just as the problem of Reform arises within the Jewish people. Should one be easygoing and indeed let things come, simplify, go along a little with the current of broader ideas, of universal ideas — and perhaps, for the time being, not practice this circumcision, which will constitute a barrier for others? As long as we remain at the level of this universal law, Avraham’s word is heard.

Avraham succeeds in this open dialogue with the other nations; he has been able to bring back a multitude of people. So will he opt for this reformed Judaism — setting the practice aside for a while, with the idea of recovering it later? What should be done? After all, they serve G-d quite well by devoting themselves to spreading, to teaching the universal laws — that too is very good, it is praiseworthy, is it not? Aner and Eshkol did indeed oppose the circumcision; only Mamre told him to go ahead. There are no half-measures on the path of spirituality. One must go all the way, and those who can follow will follow. As for those who want to stay behind — well, much good may it do them; it will be their pace.

One day, perhaps, they will catch up; but let us continue on our way. One must not slow down or lower the demands simply because we are going to practice a mass Judaism. So: av hamon goyim — but all the same, it is through circumcision that you will be av hamon goyim. U-netaticha le-goyim, “I will make you into nations”: you will always be in the midst of the peoples, always the focus of the other peoples’ gaze. But those who uphold kingship — that is, those who will be able to represent this divine kingship on earth, such as David, such as Shlomo, such as the project of the Mashiach — u-melakhim mimkha yetze’u, “kings shall come forth from you.” It is on this condition that I will maintain My covenant between Me and you and your descendants, le-dorotam li-verit olam, “throughout their generations, as an everlasting covenant.” Le-dorotam berit olam — this was said twice in the Torah: concerning the milah and concerning Shabbat. For all generations and as a covenant forever: ot hi le-olam — Shabbat is a covenant for eternity. And we also know that we bear three signs of the covenant; there are three signs. Shabbat is an ot, a sign. The milah is an ot. And the third ot — what is it?

Shabbat is an ot, the milah is an ot, and the third ot… — Space? — Space: so the rainbow… — No, not the keshet here. — Then speech? — One moment: there are the tefillin. Tefillin, Shabbat and milah. So we must bear witness. A Jew carries two witnesses — al pi shenei edim… yakum davar, “by the mouth of two witnesses shall a matter stand.” The milah is part of our being; the tefillin, which are the concentrate of Jewish faith, are worn every day — except on Shabbat. So on Shabbat we have the two witnesses, which are Shabbat itself — since on Shabbat we do not wear tefillin — and the milah. This ot, then, this sign, is truly a concrete way of bearing G-d’s covenant.

Ve-natati lekha u-le-zar’akha acharekha et eretz megurekha, et kol eretz Kena’an la-achuzat olam, ve-hayiti lahem le-Elokim — “And I will give to you and to your descendants after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession, and I will be their G-d.” And just as the brit olam is an eternal covenant, not reducible in time, so the Land of Israel, reserved for the people of Israel, is achuzat olam, a possession for eternity. The Ramban says that this means: if the people is condemned to leave this land for however many years, the return will be an entirely natural return to its roots, to its land. At no moment will it have lost the benefit of its land. Just as it carries the milah within itself, it carries the Land within itself. And herein, if you like, lies the minhag, the custom, of cutting the foreskin at the milah and placing it in a dish of earth — a dish holding a little earth — for we recall that this act of circumcision is bound up with another promise, or guarantees another promise: that of achuzat olam.

Va-yomer Elokim el Avraham: ve-atah et beriti tishmor — “And G-d said to Avraham: and you, you shall keep My covenant.” It is a pledge to follow this covenant; it is the insistent formulation. So the Holy One, blessed be He, asks Avraham to observe this covenant — and it must be understood that this is a hard trial, because in the end it means attesting in one’s being, in one’s flesh, one’s belonging to the people. Those who persecuted us had only to check — however long we might try to hide it — whether we were circumcised or not. Now this circumcision, as we have said, is a reconversion of being, a re-creation. That is precisely why every candidate for entry into the Jewish people must pass through circumcision.

And from the moment he passes through circumcision, he joins the roots of the Jewish people. That means he has not been added on; he does not come as a supplement to the composition of the Jewish people — no, he comes as an integral part of the Jewish people. And here our Sages say that in this hei added to Avraham in view of his milah, a certain perfection of being was intended. They said: the hei has a numerical value of five, and this hei refers to the two eyes, the two ears and the organ of the milah. That is to say: we can master all our other senses; what generally escapes us, what we do not manage to control, is the field of our vision, sounds, vibrations — the noise of this world that surrounds us — and our inner desire, which awakens in a thousand ways.

I don’t know… Today we have a computer that reasons for us. But does it desire for us? Is it capable of offering us consolation, affection? That is another matter, is it not? What does the milah come to do? It comes to orient our field of vision, to silence everything else, to make us sensitive to another music, to another word, to another language; to make us see things otherwise, perceive them otherwise. That is it. Zot beriti asher tishmeru… u-nemaltem et besar orlatkhem, ve-hayah le-ot brit beini u-veineikhem — “This is My covenant which you shall keep… you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.” Circumcision is what will give you this other vision of the world — in your flesh.

But this presupposes the eighth day: that is, you will make the count starting from this cycle that lies outside the world. You are going to step out of the purely natural vision, out of your conditioning by the laws of physics. U-ven shemonat yamim yimol lakhem kol zakhar le-doroteikhem, yelid bayit u-miknat kesef — “At eight days old every male among you shall be circumcised throughout your generations, the one born in the house and the one bought with money” […]. The same principle, the same mitzvah applies to him: the mitzvah applies to all those whom you will have acquired as servants. He must not disturb this way of seeing things for you.

You must always remain within this vision of the world and not create a screen. That is why this circumcision is imposed — imposed on all those who live with you, who share your space. Once again: in your flesh — and that is much more difficult. The uncircumcised: whoever does not perform the circumcision of his flesh, of the flesh of his foreskin, will be condemned to karet. Karet is a premature death, a death without continuation, a terrible death; it is being torn away from the physical being of the people. But careful: it is not decided by man, it is not the work of man; it is the work of G-d. Karet bi-yedei shamayim, “karet at the hands of Heaven”: a death that G-d alone decides, when there is a conscious breach of the covenant.

We now come to verse 15: “And G-d said to Avraham: Sarai ishtekha lo tikra et shemah Sarai, ki Sarah shemah” — “Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, for Sarah is her name.” Now we pass from the relative to the universal. Avraham was within the relative — av hamon goyim; he becomes man as such, the prototype of the universal. He must not serve one people alone; he must serve the whole of humanity. It is the same with his wife Sarai, who loses this first-person ending: “my princess.” No — she is the princess of everyone. […] This is to say that this milah concerns the woman as much as the man. Once again, it is the same thing. But here it is not u-netaticha le-goyim, as was said to Avraham, but ve-hayetah le-goyim, malkhei amim mimenah yihyu — “she shall become nations; kings of peoples shall come from her.” She too will be at the origin of those kings who are the manifestation of divine kingship in this world.

Once again, va-yipol Avraham al panav, “Avraham fell on his face.” The first time, it was Avraham bowing before G-d; and a second time — this time he sees Yitzchak, and he laughs. He is overjoyed, probably, since the name Yitzchak means “he will laugh”: he will laugh in the future, in what is to come. He is forever laughing at everything that happens to him […] — and here we are. But there is a small reservation: va-yomer be-libo, “he said in his heart.” He says it to himself. That is not good — to be forever ruminating thoughts and not daring, not daring to express them, to release them. Va-yomer be-libo — do you see?

That is the attitude of a rasha, of an unbeliever. Where have we seen it? Va-yomer be-libo: he too spoke to himself and did not dare declare his antisemitism openly, because it would not be proper, it would not be well regarded. But you see: amar naval be-libo — “the fool said in his heart” — the naval said: ein Elokim, “there is no G-d.” So how is it with the righteous man? What does he say? For him, his heart is in his power: he masters it. He masters his vibrations, the bad vibrations of his heart. It is good, it is a promise — but am I capable? do I deserve it? […] You think so? Go forward with it.

Do not ask yourself the question: ha-le-ven me’ah shanah yivaled, “shall a child be born to one a hundred years old?” — will I still be able, at a hundred, to go on doing something? Ve-im Sarah ha-vat tish’im shanah teled, “and shall Sarah, at ninety years old, give birth?” — and you project this even onto your wife. That is life, that is life. And that is what makes him here, at last… he finally releases his thought. Avraham says: lu Yishmael yichyeh lefanekha, “O that Yishmael might live before You!” Will Yishmael not, in the end… — if You give me a child, is the other one going to be rejected? But why? Give him at least a chance. We have already dealt with this problem; we will not go back to it. Va-yomer Elokim: aval Sarah ishtekha yoledet lekha ben, ve-karata et shemo Yitzchak — “And G-d said: Indeed, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Yitzchak.”

And the Master of the world named the child: he will indeed be called Yitzchak. And this is the first time that a child is named by Him directly — for with Yishmael, it was the angel. U-le-Yishmael shema’tikha, “and as for Yishmael, I have heard you”… — excuse me, I see that the time is up. Well, listen, I will stop here to allow you to ask a few questions if you have any. I did not manage to finish going through this chapter; I will do so next time, and at the same time I will give the lesson. — Two small questions, Rav, if possible? — Yes. — First small question: when a giyoret, a female convert, goes through… when a ger goes through [conversion], yes, he undergoes circumcision. But how does this transfer happen — what the ger does, in the case of the giyoret? Even if we say that the woman is the complement of the man, the giyoret does not yet have the man with her. How can she carry out this transformation — this integration into the Jewish people — without the milah?

I answer: the woman, in her very constitution, […]. She is truly the vessel that receives all the seed of the earth and develops it — from the moment she remains the recipient of this seed, in order indeed to go on ensuring posterity, since man alone cannot do it and needs her, virtually. — Then why does she need to convert? — Sorry? — Why should she convert? Why should a woman convert? If she is only the receptacle, then it doesn’t matter; she shouldn’t have to… — No, careful, because the mikveh is for the woman: the mikveh is for the woman, and it is her place of re-creation.

— But for the man too. — Sorry? — For the man too. — For the man, it is not imposed. It is not simply yarad ve-taval, “he went down and immersed.” First of all: has he undergone circumcision? Immersing in the mikveh, if he has not undergone circumcision, is of no avail — it is as though he were holding an insect in his hands, an impure creature in his hands. So for the man it is complementary; for the woman it is essential, since for the woman, in the end, it will be part of her permanent re-creation, of the fertilization of her earth, of her own person. — But then, suppose a non-Jewish woman is in the process: in fact, the whole conversion process as it stands has nothing to do with it…

…it is simply, in fact, what will consecrate her… how to put it… — Yes, what will consecrate her is simply the fact that she immerses in the mikveh. Yes: for the woman, it is the way of validating, if you like, her conversion — of essentially validating her conversion. — You said that Sarai became Sarah, became the mother of all peoples, the universal mother. But whereas Avram was really, de facto, the father of many peoples, Sarah remained the mother of Yitzchak alone. She has nothing to do with Yishmael, nothing to do with the other people; she does not claim to be the mother of Yishmael or of others, as Avraham is. In what way is she the universal mother? — Ah yes. You are touching there on a delicate point. A woman cannot belong to two men. A man can have two wives.

— Theoretically. — Sorry? — Theoretically. — Theoretically, fine. Yes. Well, Yaakov is the prototype — even with two sisters. It is said that at that time the Torah had not yet been given. But the couple by definition, the monogamous couple — the Jewish couple is a monogamous couple — is that of Yitzchak and Rivkah, the one whose betrothal and marriage the Torah relates. For Avraham, we have neither the choice, nor the shiddukh (the match), nor the marriage. Hagar — that we do have. But as for Hagar, there was… it was a misunderstanding. Nevertheless, from these two women — from four — the Jewish people was born. And that is a delicate point. I do not justify it for all that.

We are not Avraham, Yitzchak or Yaakov. — But what is the universal character of Sarah? — Sorry? — The link — the universal character of Sarah. — Sarah is not the mother. There is no universal mother. There is a universal father. The mother — mothers belong to their own children. They are not all… they are not… Perhaps Rachel, one could say. — How old was Sarah when Avraham began asking himself questions about the origin of creation? — She had just been born, when Avraham was already ten. There is a commentator who says that Sarah was not touched by the generation of the Dispersion — the twentieth generation, that of the Tower of Babel — as Avraham was, for at least three years.

For […] — yes, it was from the age of three, even, that he is said to have begun questioning these many deities that surrounded him. Now, these three years — one may indeed ask such questions about them. But one would have to see what lies behind it; today I do not know. — All right. Toda rabbah. — Toda rabbah to you. Thank you very much. — There we are, I’ll leave you. Good evening. I’ll be expecting you, I’ll be expecting you — until next week, be-ezrat Hashem. Good evening. Goodbye. I greet Jonathan — I recognized you. Thank you.